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Budedm - Posted - 05/14/: 10:17:35
Here's one for the thinkers out there. I need to ad 20' of 16" culvert pipe to one that is already there. It is along the ditch next to the road. It just handles rain runoff. The pipe is 16" diameter, corrugated plastic with a smooth bore. It is very heavy and stiff. It does not bend. The problem is, It needs to bend about 10 degrees at about the halfway point. So, here's my thought. I'd cut a wedge through the pipe, 5 degrees from perpendicular on each side of a line. Total angle would be 10 degrees. But I wouldn't cut all the way through. The bit that I leave would act as a hinge and I would then bend the pipe until the cuts meet. That would put my pipe at 10 degrees. Then I would drill some holes or slots in the corrugated outside ribs, and use a metal banding machine to draw the pipe together tightly. Then drop the pipe in the ditch and cover with soil. I know the band will eventually rust but at that point, the soil will hold the pipe in place. Any thoughts?
donc - Posted - 05/14/: 10:35:27
With the pipes of all sizes of abs or pvc that I have worked on there is usually a joint of two pieces that will give you an adjustable choice of angles. You also see this in household stove/furnace pipe.
dat - Posted - 05/14/: 10:38:56
how 'bout a heat up with a propane torch and bending it, we do that with pvc pipe deer feeders
Budedm - Posted - 05/14/: 10:40:18
quote:
Originally posted by doncWith the pipes of all sizes of abs or pvc that I have worked on there is usually a joint of two pieces that will give you an adjustable choice of angles. You also see this in household stove/furnace pipe.
I'm sure there is but it is expensive. I am cheap and thought I'd try doing something myself.
Budedm - Posted - 05/14/: 10:42:06
quote:
Originally posted by dathow 'bout a heat up with a propane torch and bending it, we do that with pvc pipe deer feeders
I do that also with smaller pipe. This is big and with the smooth bore, it is almost like a double wall. Not sure if I could heat enough of it at once to bend it.
eagleisland - Posted - 05/14/: 10:43:25
It's been several decades since I worked on culverts.... but it seems to me that while your recipe would work for a while, i is ultimately likely to fail as water escapes at the cut and solids start filling in. If you can find an angled that you can insert at the necessary bend, you're better off.
Budedm - Posted - 05/14/: 10:45:57
quote:
Originally posted by eagleislandIt's been several decades since I worked on culverts.... but it seems to me that while your recipe would work for a while, i is ultimately likely to fail as water escapes at the cut and solids start filling in. If you can find an angled that you can insert at the necessary bend, you're better off.
I have a fix for that. I have a lot of EPDM (heavy rubber). I will wrap it around the bend a few times, maybe a foot or two on each side, and get some of those huge zip ties to secure it.
dat - Posted - 05/14/: 10:47:02
quote:
Originally posted by eagleislandIt's been several decades since I worked on culverts.... but it seems to me that while your recipe would work for a while, i is ultimately likely to fail as water escapes at the cut and solids start filling in. If you can find an angled that you can insert at the necessary bend, you're better off.
true, it could wash out around the bend, you could fiberglass mat/ resin around the bend to seal after you cut and turn
donc - Posted - 05/14/: 12:01:54
The problem with drain pipe is that it isn't usually under pressure from inside. This means that dirt and sand can leak into the pipe and plug it if a joint fails. Then you may get loads of dirt etc. into the full length of the pipe. From one cheap guy to another I would suggest using pieces that won't result in a major dig up later on.
Budedm - Posted - 05/14/: 12:11:26
quote:
Originally posted by doncThe problem with drain pipe is that it isn't usually under pressure from inside. This means that dirt and sand can leak into the pipe and plug it if a joint fails. Then you may get loads of dirt etc. into the full length of the pipe. From one cheap guy to another I would suggest using pieces that won't result in a major dig up later on.
I have a fix for that. I have a lot of EPDM (heavy rubber). I will wrap it around the bend a few times, maybe a foot or two on each side, and get some of those huge zip ties to secure it.
plunknplinkntwang - Posted - 05/14/: 12:18:32
Cutting completely through rather than leaving it joined makes things easier, if leakage out isn't a problem simply stitch together with cable ties. If leakage out is a concern, stitch with cable ties and wrap the join with a couple of layers of geotextile membrane overlapping the join by 12" either side, soak the fabric with epoxy resin applied with a brush & leave to set before burying
dat - Posted - 05/14/: 12:19:08
maybe some rubber cement too, wouldn't hurt
eagleisland - Posted - 05/14/: 12:26:54
quote:
Originally posted by plunknplinkntwangCutting completely through rather than leaving it joined makes things easier, if leakage out isn't a problem simply stitch together with cable ties. If leakage out is a concern, stitch with cable ties and wrap the join with a couple of layers of geotextile membrane overlapping the join by 12" either side, soak the fabric with epoxy resin applied with a brush & leave to set before burying
I like this idea a lot.
Brian T - Posted - 05/14/: 13:28:42
Somehow, torching 16" plastic pipe to bend it doesn't sound like a good idea.
What does your highways dept do? I'd look for the adjustable joint or consider digging
it all up for a fix when the Plan 'A' joint fails.
Does it have to be bent in the middle?
Can the whole thing be pushed into a curve?
Budedm - Posted - 05/14/: 14:34:26
You can't "curve" this stuff. I can support it on both ends on cinder blocks, then jump on the middle and it bows down about 3".
BConk - Posted - 05/14/: 15:10:30
There are problem solving thinkers and then there are abstract thinkers. The former are thinking of ways to achieve a 10 degree bend in an inflexible pipe without leakage. The latter are trying to figure out what motivated you to support both ends of this pipe with cinder blocks and then jump up and down on the middle.
dat - Posted - 05/14/: 15:20:30
support the ends, stand in the middle and have your bride heat the pipe at your feet
BConk - Posted - 05/14/: 15:27:18
quote:
Originally posted by datsupport the ends, stand in the middle and have your bride heat the pipe at your feet
.....and take a video of it ...
RonR - Posted - 05/14/: 15:49:47
If you are looking for more details, kindly visit 6 in. x 20 ft HDPE Double wall corrugated pipe.
After the cut I would make a seal at the joint with polyurethane caulk. It holds better then silicone.
Nels - Posted - 05/14/: 15:55:17
I'm still wondering why you need another 20 feet of culvert??, that goes uphill 10 degrees at one end. Are you just trying to fill in the ditch and grass over, so you don't have to mow a 'ditch'.? If so, just dig the ditch deeper at that upper end, cover the end of pipe with a metal grate to hold permeable geo-textile, fill another 2feet of the ditch with 2A stone and cover that with geo-textile forming a short 'catch basin'.. it will catch the runoff from the ditch above the 10 degree angle and filter it into the pipe. no cutting, no bending.
Edited by - Nels on 05/14/ 15:59:13
Budedm - Posted - 05/14/: 15:55:31
Lol. You guys are thinkers, but I'm not sure what kind. Actually, (and you'll get a kick outta this), I hauled this pipe home on top of my bass boat. It's the only trailer I have. So, I supported it on both ends so it would clear the seats without crushing them. That's how I know it won't bend in the middle. It was pretty funny. The guy at the place I bought it asked "where are you parked? We'll load it up for you." I said "I'm parked out front." He asked "a truck or trailer?" I said "it's a trailer. You can't miss it. It's got a boat on it." He said "what??? ". Lol.
Budedm - Posted - 05/14/: 16:09:04
quote:
Originally posted by NelsI'm still wondering why you need another 20 feet of culvert??, that goes uphill 10 degrees at one end. Are you just trying to fill in the ditch and grass over, so you don't have to mow a 'ditch'.? If so, just dig the ditch deeper at that upper end, cover the end of pipe with a metal grate to hold permeable geo-textile, fill another 2feet of the ditch with 2A stone and cover that with geo-textile forming a short 'catch basin'.. it will catch the runoff from the ditch above the 10 degree angle and filter it into the pipe. no cutting, no bending.
It's a sideways bend I have to make , not upwards.
Nels - Posted - 05/14/: 16:14:41
quote:
Originally posted by Budedmquote:
Originally posted by Nels
I'm still wondering why you need another 20 feet of culvert??, that goes uphill 10 degrees at one end. Are you just trying to fill in the ditch and grass over, so you don't have to mow a 'ditch'.? If so, just dig the ditch deeper at that upper end, cover the end of pipe with a metal grate to hold permeable geo-textile, fill another 2feet of the ditch with 2A stone and cover that with geo-textile forming a short 'catch basin'.. it will catch the runoff from the ditch above the 10 degree angle and filter it into the pipe. no cutting, no bending.
It's a sideways bend I have to make , not upwards.
OK..straighten the ditch... you still have a joint where they connect...instead of two joints..
Edited by - Nels on 05/14/ 16:23:41
Budedm - Posted - 05/14/: 16:27:53
Can't straighten the ditch. The pipe I'm tying in to is at an angle. (Not parallel to the road), and this new one is going to be parallel to the road. The existing pipe end that I am tying in to is about 3' from the road. The other end goes under my driveway and is about 9' from the road. So, I have to tie in at 3' from the road, at about a 16 degree angle (I measured it tonight) and basically keep the new pipe parallel to the road for the next 20'. I said I need to bend it in the middle because it was easier to explain, but I actually need the bend to happen right out of the existing pipe. But wherever I bend it, it will be the same process. (Whatever that is). And these pipe are the kind with one bell end. So they slip together. Well, it's not that easy. I have done 24" pipes on the other side of my drive and let me tell you, it's not as easy sliding them together as they would have you believe. I had to push them together with my backhoe!
Edited by - Budedm on 05/14/ 16:30:40
BanjoLink - Posted - 05/14/: 16:54:32
No big deal, but first check to see if the pipe you bought is not 15". I have been specifying culvert on golf course construction for forty years and have never seen 16" pipe. It sure might exist and I have never seen it. The standard (inside diameter) from ADS is 15" and probably the industry standard. I think I would bite the bullet and buy an angle fitting. ADS makes a 90, 45, 22.5, and 11.25 degree fitting - guessing the 11,25 would work perfectly. If you need it along the length of the pipe, of course you would have to cut your pipe. You could always build a junction box out of concrete block, or brick - not hard, but a little more complicated. There may also be a plastic junction box that you could buy that would allow you to turn the pipe at the correct angle coming into the box and then seal the area where it enters the box.
Budedm - Posted - 05/14/: 17:05:03
Yes , it is 15". Not sure why I kept saying 16. A jct box might work. I built one on the other side a number of years ago where 3 pipes join.
BanjoLink - Posted - 05/14/: 17:10:33
Check the price on the ADS angle fitting - probably pretty expensive but may save you a lot of labor.
Budedm - Posted - 05/14/: 17:23:23
Ok I'll do that.
Charles in SC - Posted - 05/14/: 19:22:27
Would it be possible to get a winch cable wrapped around it and kind of crush it a little bit where you want it to bend. I just did a job with some pipe like that and would think a 20 foot section would flex 10 degrees. It sounds like you are going to need a union to connect the ends together. The union might have that much flex in it.
Budedm - Posted - 05/15/: 12:36:34
I checked on the angled connector. It's $70 and they only have 22 1/2 degree. They say the 11 1/4 degree is a special order and could be $100. Since my angle is 16, I don't want spend that kind of money on a fitting that probably won't work for me. So, what I'm going to do is cut it at an 8 degree angle with a chainsaw all the way through. (I verified that this is the best way to cut this stuff), But before I cut all the way through, I'm going to put 2 lines on the pipe, 180 degrees apart crossing the cut. After I finish the cut, I'll rotate one piece of the pipe until the lines line back up and then put it back against the other pipe and I'll have 16 degrees. After I verify the angle and the seam and how smooth or rough it is, I'll take 6 feet of an old garden hose and slice it lengthwise. Then spread it open and latch it onto one edge of the cut pipe, all the way around. This will act as a seal. This might be tricky and if it doesn't work, I have a back up plan. Anyway, so after the hose is hooked onto one side, I'll push the pipes together while it is laying on my nice flat driveway. Then I'm going to sew it up with #10 copper wire. To do this I will simply drill 1/8" holes directly across from each other all along the seam. Then insert my wire from out to in and back out again. Then twist the ends together with pliers. (Copper won't rust or corrode underground. At least not in MY lifetime). I'll do this maybe every 3" or so all around the circumference. Then I will wrap the seam with EPDM (heavy rubber sheet) going around it twice and about a foot on each side of the seam. Then I'll put those huge zip ties around it to hold it tight against the pipe. Oh, the back up plan if the hose doesn't work is silicone, which if the hose works, I will use anyway.
MrManners - Posted - 05/15/: 13:32:11
if it was mine,i would make sure the joint was sealed with some plastic or felt paper ,so the crete would not run in and build a form ,not much of one and put the sackrete to it,
Edited by - MrManners on 05/15/ 13:32:57
jbanjoist - Posted - 05/15/: 13:33:06
This is supposed to be flexible. Might could look around and find it cheaper.
Also just looking at it you might could get the stainless clamps that size or even smaller and put them together and use the rubber you have to join it all up and flex it to the angle you need.
amazon.com/Flexible-Coupling-I...RW8SA
Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 05/15/: 14:24:44
I'm with the stick one end in and put the other end in regardless, it'll go... (with enuff force from the bucket)
Edited by - Kenneth Logsdon on 05/15/ 14:25:21
Budedm - Posted - 05/15/: 14:40:42
quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth LogsdonI'm with the stick one end in and put the other end in regardless, it'll go... (with enuff force from the bucket)
I dunno ken. This thing is like concrete. I think it'd break the bell end of the original pipe before it curved.
dat - Posted - 05/16/: 05:50:59
I still like the idea of heat, set it between two trees, one on each end, tie a come along in the middle, tighten 'till there is good pressure then slow heat an area about two feet wide with a rosebud on low flame moving in circles back and forth, tighten the come along as it heats. , victor works on more than metal
Edited by - dat on 05/16/ 05:54:20
dat - Posted - 05/16/: 15:06:15
if you aren't in a hurry for it, keep it tied up with pressure pulling in the middle for a while, around here the summer heat can warp one pretty quick. with the right pressure in the rights spots, and the summer sunshine, you can make an "S" curve ifin you needed to
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