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sworley
I feel pretty weak right now but I read they are very hard to turn. Is there a trick to it? I have a 3" one that I received today and I can't budge it! Is there something to spray on them, or is there a lock of some sort that prevents them from turning? Any help would be appreciated! :confused: I'm going to have a real problem with the plumbing for my pond if I can't open and shut the valves. :no:
Carol
One hand here, one hand there. Grunk, groan. Swear, spit then holler.
Don't use a hammer.
Go in make a drink and ***** about why its so hard to move.:D:
GloriaL
I'm afraid the problem may be with the brand of ball valve you bought and not your strength! I yelled and wheedled and cajoled to get my contrctor to put in ball valves and then ended up like you-unable to turn them with my entire weight on the handle. Then I read something on here about Teflon seated valves. Apparently there is a huge difference in the quality of the valves and your ability to actually use them. For the time being I have removed my valves since they were just increasing the drawdown in my filters. Now I am using (temporarily I hope)expansion plugs in the inlets and outlets of my filter chambers- a VERY inelegant solution. Good luck. I will be watching for a good solution to your (and my) problem!
Popfish
Make a wrench out of a piece of pvc and put a screwdriver through to get some leverage!!
koitoo
Make a wrench out of a piece of pvc and put a screwdriver through to get some leverage!!
exactly!!!!
UnkleTim
Gloria is dead on accurate. I have a few "good ones" that are easy to turn, some that I need to put channel locks on to turn, and one that....well, it won't turn, period.
Maryanne
This is what I use to turn mine.
A tool I got from the swimming pool installer to turn the handle of the pump basket for the pool. It works like magic.
GloriaL
Mine are 4"ball valves. None of my channel locks would help! The handle is already 8"long
GloriaL
This is what I use to turn mine.
A tool I got from the swimming pool installer to turn the handle of the pump basket for the pool. It works like magic.
Is ther supposed to be a picture here? I can't see one!
sworley
I'd love to see a picture of what he's talking about, too. Even my husband couldn't turn this mutha, and he can usually get things moving. Is there a lubricant of some sort that would safely work? If so, where would you apply it?
Maryanne
I'd love to see a picture of what he's talking about, too. Even my husband couldn't turn this mutha, and he can usually get things moving. Is there a lubricant of some sort that would safely work? If so, where would you apply it?
he?:eek1:
I don't think so. :rolleyes: :D:
I'll take a pic of the thing if you'd like.
GHouse
I noticed this when I went valve shopping. Some types would turn & some did not. I asked the Lowes guy to order the ones that acutally would turn without breaking the plumbing. Still waiting....
Maryanne
Hope this helps
Cessnatpa
What about useing a gate valve like this one http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Gate-Knife-Valve-Koi-Fish-Pond-Water-Garden-Plumbing_W0QQitemZQQihZ013QQcategoryZ4 QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp.m153.l I've got 5 of them on my system and have no problems at all.
stephen44
When they are new - I found that dunking them in a bucket of warm water helped !
avorancher
Like everyone mentioned, there is a huge difference from brand to brand... both in $$ and in ease of turning.
I might add. If it is new in the box, it "might" be much easier to turn once installed and wet. On new valves the seals often stick until they are submersed and used a couple times. I stress the word "might" here.
sworley
he?:eek1:
I don't think so. :rolleyes: :D:
I'll take a pic of the thing if you'd like.
Sorry, Maryanne - didn't see your name when I read the post. Ooops!
sworley
That tool looks like it would help a lot. Wonder where I could get one?
sworley
One hand here, one hand there. Grunk, groan. Swear, spit then holler.
Don't use a hammer.
Go in make a drink and ***** about why its so hard to move.:D:
I've done that! Didn't help but I felt better! ;)
sworley
What about useing a gate valve like this one http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Gate-Knife-Valve-Koi-Fish-Pond-Water-Garden-Plumbing_W0QQitemZQQihZ013QQcategoryZ4 QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp.m153.l I've got 5 of them on my system and have no problems at all.
Thanks - I plan to use some of those, too. Looks like they'd be a lot easier to operate.
Dillon
Just as long as you keep the seal/slot clean. I got a piece of gravel in my 4" knife valve and it was toast. :eek1:
Thanks - I plan to use some of those, too. Looks like they'd be a lot easier to operate.
boggen
If you are looking for more details, kindly visit Flanged Ball Valve.
folks have came up with alot of different home made "cheater bars" or rather tools to help them with ball valve handles. problem is the ball valve handles being plastic and and will break / crack on you if you are not carefull. generally the local big box stores, lowes, menards, homedepot. carry the cheap stuff for valves. meaning the valves can be hard to turn, to the hole going through them could be up to 1" smaller than pipe size connecting up to them.
some 2" ball valves can give folks trouble in turning, but when you get into the 3" and 4" size ball valves. this is were ya start hearing a lot of folks complaining about being hard to turn more so for the cheaper brands normally.
if you only need to control on / off flow. knife valves, butter fly valves, stand pipes all can work.
it is when you need to control flow of water. is when ball valves, gate valves, and some times butter fly valves come into play. for these valves can be partially shut or open and maintain that position.
birdman
What about useing a gate valve like this one http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Gate-Knife-Valve-Koi-Fish-Pond-Water-Garden-Plumbing_W0QQitemZQQihZ013QQcategoryZ4 QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp.m153.l I've got 5 of them on my system and have no problems at all.
Those are not gate valves, but what are called knife or blade valves. They only work fully open or fully closed. No good for regulating flow.
birdman
I don't know if your valve is the economy kind with out unions, in which case it will only get harder and harder to turn with time. So you get a bigger wrench, then an even bigger wrench until the handle breaks off.
People have been cautioned here time and time again about using the economy valves. Unfortunately the single union or true union valves are very expensive. But they work, and will continue to work well.
It's kind of hard to swallow, spending as much money on a stupid valve as a small pump, but draining your pond to change out a broken 4" BD valve just isn't any fun either.
sworley
I don't know if your valve is the economy kind with out unions, in which case it will only get harder and harder to turn with time. So you get a bigger wrench, then an even bigger wrench until the handle breaks off.
People have been cautioned here time and time again about using the economy valves. Unfortunately the single union or true union valves are very expensive. But they work, and will continue to work well.
It's kind of hard to swallow, spending as much money on a stupid valve as a small pump, but draining your pond to change out a broken 4" BD valve just isn't any fun either.
The person I bought these from said that he had paid $120 for them and sold them to me for considerably less. There is a smooth dark gray area in the center where the "ball" is. What is a "union"?
Lee B
This is what I use to turn mine.
A tool I got from the swimming pool installer to turn the handle of the pump basket for the pool. It works like magic.
I'm so intrigued I can't stand it :cheer: :clap: :cheer:
I keep a rubber mallet close by to "tap" on the tabs that stick out on the leaf basket lids. No matter how little I tighten them, after the pumps turn on for a while, they're too tight. I've injured both my elbows, and I just can't twist the lids loose.
And *ball valves*!!!! I have "medium" grade valves in my system, and even THEY give me a hard time.
Where did you get your wrench thingy? What's it (technically) called so I can find one?
Lucky girl .... :bow:
birdman
The person I bought these from said that he had paid $120 for them and sold them to me for considerably less. There is a smooth dark gray area in the center where the "ball" is. What is a "union"?
Here is a single union valve and a true union valve. You can see the "unions" on the ends that can be loosened and/or tightened.
Fishbreeder
Another huge advantage of a "true union" ball valve is that it can easily be replaced if it does get stuck. Just remove the unions and replace the center part.
If a gunite and plaster pond, it should have a life expectancy of 25 to 50 years, good valves will make the pond a lot better and if prorated over 25 years they are not actually expensive at all, if a problem comes, they are indeed cheap.
Now for a liner pond with an average life of 5 to 10 years, cheap valves are probably the better bet to keep costs in check.
For me, life is too short for a liner pond. I've yet to see one that was "for and about the fish." Always "for and about the price." A good place for a beginner to start, but no place for a real fish collector to keep real koi.
Brett
sworley
Here is a single union valve and a true union valve. You can see the "unions" on the ends that can be loosened and/or tightened.
Mine are the economy kind without unions. :( I won't buy anything else without running them you and the other experts here. I'm going to see if my son can make something with which I can turn these, or I'll just sell them on ebay. I emailed the person from whom I bought them, but never got a response. Oh well. We live and learn. :rolleyes:
boggen
Here is a single union valve and a true union valve. You can see the "unions" on the ends that can be loosened and/or tightened.
the single union 2" ball valves have had good luck with with ease of turning. there been other threads of this nature also with folks stating good luck with them.
Moneypit
Yes make sure you get Tephlon seats or what is called a Eazy turn valve, the 4" I have on my pond I can open or shut with one hand:yes:
NelsonW
Before installing the valve, apply a little silicone grease to the ball. That should help some. As you use the valve regularly, sometimes it loosens up. Silicone grease is found in the plumbing department of the hardware store and is for use on faucets. The one I bought was in a small metal can, similar to some brands of lip balm.
sworley
Before installing the valve, apply a little silicone grease to the ball. That should help some. As you use the valve regularly, sometimes it loosens up. Silicone grease is found in the plumbing department of the hardware store and is for use on faucets. The one I bought was in a small metal can, similar to some brands of lip balm.
Thanks, Nelson. I saw some today in one of our local large farm stores that has everything. I was buying stuff to make a rain barrel. I'll go back and get some tomorrow. Where do I put it? On the edged of where the "ball" is? Looks to me like there is some sort of gasket or something there - that's probably what makes it so hard to turn.
sworley
Yes make sure you get Tephlon seats or what is called a Eazy turn valve, the 4" I have on my pond I can open or shut with one hand:yes:
Thanks, Stacy. I don't know if that's what I have or not - I just know that they are not turnable at this point. They have something that is very slick and grey in the area in the center of the ball part but it looks like there is possibly a light tan-colored gasket of some sort around the edged of that area. I've soaked them in warm water as someone suggested but still couldn't turn them. My son will be home tonight so I'm hoping he'll be able to take a look at them and give me some ideas, too. I appreciate all the input I can get.
NelsonW
Put a light coat of the silicone grease on the entire ball on both sides. You may have to use a Q-tip taped to a stick to reach the edges of the ball.
Then dry fit the valve onto a piece of 3" pipe to help hold the valve while turning the handle. The extra home-made handles for added leverage that everyone recommends is always helpful for the larger valves. Good luck.
If you deal with this type of PVC valve in your plumbing, then you need to make a Valve Tamer. This is a simple project born out of frustration with hard-to-turn PVC valves.
Here&#;s how you can make one out of 3/4&#; PVC fittings and pipe. You just need two end caps, a Tee, a straight coupler, and a few feet of 3/4&#; schedule 40 PVC pipe. You will also need some PVC primer and PVC cement. A PVC pipe cutter helps, but if you don&#;t have one, you can use a hack saw instead. In fact, keep that hack saw handy because you&#;ll need it later in the project.
First, cut two short pieces of PVC. I cut mine to about one and a half inches long, but you can cut them longer if you want a longer handle. Next, push one of the short pieces in to the end of the tee then push an end cap on. Repeat for the other side. There is no need to glue these pieces together unless you just want to.
Now we have to cut a slot in the end of the straight coupler. Place the coupler over the top of the handle on a valve and mark the coupler where the slots need to be cut on both sides. If you don&#;t have a valve handy for reference you can mark the slots to be 3/8 of an inch wide. Continue the marks from the side onto the end. Put the coupler in a vice and use a hack saw to cut down about ¾ of an inch on both sides.
I used a Dremel tool to cut the tabs most of the way through, so I could break them off, but you could use a utility knife and score it at the base of the tabs to break them off, or you could drill them out with a 3/8&#; drill bit.
Check to make sure you have a good fit over the valve handle.
Now it&#;s time to make the shaft. It can be any length you want. The one you saw at the beginning of this video is about four feet long. This one will be about 16 inches long. First, prime the tee and one end of the pipe. Give each piece a generous coat of PVC cement. Press the pieces together and hold it firmly for about ten seconds. Wipe off any excess cement. Repeat this for the straight coupler and other end of the pipe. I recommend aligning the slots with the tee handle. Again, hold the pieces in place for about 10 seconds to keep them from pushing apart. Now give it about two hours to fully cure and it will be ready to use.
The finished Valve TamerSo why did I make one four feet long? It&#;s great for letting you turn valves in valve boxes below ground, overhead, or in the wall in the back of a cabinet. The slideshow below shows the convenience of having a long Valve-Tamer.
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