Questions about buffing pads for correcting/polishing by ...

JimmyG said:

Hi everybody!

I'm very glad to join this forum and can't wait to learn more about detailing!

I'm finalizing the plan for my first detailing project involving a machine polisher (and ceramic coating). I already bought all the chemicals needed, but need advice on buffing pads.

The goal of this project is to correct the dull (oxidized?) paint on the hood and roof of my mom's mid-s silver Acura Integra. According to her, it has been years--maybe a decade--since a wax has been applied, it has been occasionally washed with dish washing soap, and it is usually parked outside the garage. The rest of the car appears to be in decent shape (i.e., the side panels still have some shine, no noticeable scratches that I can see, and no bubbled or missing clearcoat), but I'm sure more defects will become visible once the paint is properly washed and cleaned.

With competitive price and timely delivery, Leading Diamond Tools sincerely hope to be your supplier and partner.

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Great candidate for an Extreme Prep Wash!

JimmyG said:

I bought a Griot's Garage G9 Random Orbital Polisher and plan to buy a 5" backing plate, some Griot's 5.5" non-BOSS pads, and some 5.75" McKee's 37 Redline pads. I hope 8 "correcting", 5 "polishing", and 3 "waxing" 5.5"/5.75" pads are sufficient, but I am unsure if those 3 "waxing" pads are needed since the main protection will be a ceramic coating.

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You won't need the waxing pads, which I believe are the black foam finishing pads. The orange or white foam pads in the McKee's Redline line of pads are great general purpose "polishing" pads. The white foam is a tick softer than the orange foam and will normally finish out nice even on soft paints.

JimmyG said:

For smaller areas (e.g., bumpers, pillars, trim), I plan to buy a NanoSkin 3" Hand Strap Applicator, a Wolfgang/Pinnacle Polishin' Pal, some 3" Griot's non-BOSS pads, and some 3.75" McKee's 37 Redline pads.

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If you get the Nanoskin 3" hand strap you really won't need the polishing pal. I worked at the geek for 11 years and never used a polishin-pal. LOL - if I did, it was just to show it. If you have sensitive hand muscles or weak hand muscles, then it would work as it gives you something a tick more ample to grasp. I have nothing against them, just never use them.

For hand polishing, the 3" hand backing pad matched to the right buffing pad will work. You can even just use a quality microfiber or foam hand applicator pad for most hand work. Start with microfiber and re-polish with foam on softer paints to remove any marring caused by the pressure points from your finger tips.

JimmyG said:

Does the "minimum recommended number of pads" (i.e., 6 "correcting" pads, 4 "polishing" pads, 1 "waxing" pad) only apply to machine buffing with larger pads? Should I forgo all these small pads/holders, and just use ordinary yellow foam wax applicators held between my thumb and fingers for compounding and polishing the smaller areas?

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Yes. Having more pads is mostly important for any major paint correction steps like compounding and polishing by machine.

JimmyG said:

In all honesty, I probably won't be using the G9 much after I correct the paint on my mom's car. I had to sell my car earlier this year, but I might buy a new car next year. I have access to an SUV that I could offer free paint correction/polishing on, but I have no other plans to correct/polish paint, so I don't want to spend too much on machine polisher tools and pads. Besides, the G9 is much louder than I expected;

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All power tools are going to have some level of noise, the G9 is a good average on sound and felt-vibration.

JimmyG said:

I haven't bought buffing pads yet, but I powered up the G9 anyway and it sounds pretty loud even at its lowest setting--although it could just be my sensitive ears.

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Get and use some ear plugs. I wear ear protection anytime I'm buffing now days. It's just a good practice. I also provide ear protection in all my detailing classes.

JimmyG said:

The G9 is my first DA polisher; I guess I expected DA polishers to be quieter since they never seem very loud when people operate them in YouTube videos. I'll wear earplugs, but the neighbors won't like the noise!

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It's a great free spinning polisher and you'll get use to the noise, which is normal for polishers.

JimmyG said:

1. Wash the car, wheels, and tires using McKee's 37 Coating Prep Auto Wash and then dry. I'll research and buy some dedicated cleaners for the wheels and tires later.

By the way, here is the process I plan to use to wash/correct/polish/protect the paint on my mom's car. Is the following a good process?

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That will work. For a "Prep" wash, you can use any quality car wash soap. Heck, I used Dawn dish washing liquid for 2 recent "Prep" washes. I know some detailing experts will say this is wrong and I always say, go with the experts but what the experts don't take the time to read or understand is there's a HUGE difference between a "Prep" wash and a "Maintenance" wash.

I used the Dawn dish washing soap on a Studebaker Silver Hawk that was in a FIRE and had smoke soot all over it. I NEEDED the cleaning strength of a detergent to really get the car clean BEFORE I machine polished the entire outside, glass, chrome, paint.

The other car I used Dawn dish washing soap on was a Porsche Macan - and it was used as a Hockey Puck by the previous owner. I washed the heck out of this SUV and then did a FULL AGGRESSIVE compounding - so the "detergent" aspect of this detail was a non-issue.

JimmyG said:

1. Apply McKee's 37 Xtreme Iron Remover Gel to the car and wheels using foam wax applicators.

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Any quality iron remover will work. A good spray-on is faster and easier than spreading a gel type product. Sound like a good idea on paper but not necessary UNLESS you have severe iron contamination that's ancient, then a gel offers longer dwell time, which helps.

If you already bought it - then definitely use it as it does work good for this category of product.

I rarely use iron removers. Not since I had a HORRIBLE experience where the top notch brand I used

STAINED

the anodized aluminum trim on a VW I detailed. If you're going to machine polish the paint - the polishing will remove any iron build up.

Nothing against iron removers and I normally show them during the Extreme Prep Wash portion of any detailing class I teach because it's a category of products and technique for all of use detailers to know how to do and do correctly - but not as necessary as everyone thinks.

JimmyG said:

1. Wash off the Iron Remover Gel using Coating Prep Auto Wash and then dry.

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If you continue with the use or any iron remover - rinse off after it's dwelled for a few minutes but not dried on the surface and then move on to washing the car.

Normally I would wash wheels and tires first - then start on the car body panels.

JimmyG said:

1. Clay bar the car and wheels using The Rag Company Ultra Clay Scrubber, McKee's 37 Universal Detailing Clay, and McKee's 37 Universal Clay Lubricant.

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If you want to save steps - wash and rinse the car and then while the car is still wet - use a clay mitt or clay towel mechanically decontaminate the paint while the car is still wet. I teach, preach and practice to do as many cleaning steps as possible during the washing process. If you already bought these other tools, they will work fine.

JimmyG said:

1. Wash the car and wheels using Coating Prep Auto Wash (or McKee's 37 N-914 Rinseless Wash) and then dry.

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Nope. Wash the wheels and tires first. If the wheels are neglected - get a great wheel cleaner. If not, then normal car wash soap will work with a great brush. I HIGHLY recommend this brush. These can seem to be expensive but you will LOVE this brush. Plus its super high quality and will last you for years.

Wheel & Fender Brush

For more information, please visit hand polishing pads.

JimmyG said:

1. Apply McKee's 37 Beast Compound using the G9 and by hand. I'll start with the "polishing" pads first and see if that is enough to make the roof and hood shine again; if not, then I'll switch to the "correcting" pads.

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The BEAST compound can be a tick sticky to wipe off. This is one of the things I didn't like about it when I was using it while at AF/MK. Be sure to wipe off immediately and it will be easier. You can also spray some water or a spray detailer on it to make wipe-off easier.

I'm a rep for Dr. Beasley's now so of course I would recommend the

Plymouth Superbird Paint Correction with Dr. Beasley&#;s by Mike Phillips

The benefit to any of the NSP products is they don't contain any organic ingredients that must be removed in order for a coating to make a proper bond. you can us any of the NSP products, 150, 95, 45 and Z1 and coat right over the top of them. No messing with solvents/prep sprays and unintentionally marring the paint after you just spend hours polishing it.

I've actually been using the Z1 like a compound, that is machine applying it with microwool pads and then follow this using the same product, Z1 with a foam pad and then go to coating.

Z1 is the Dr. Beasley's version of other companies AIOs or cleaner/waxes - except no wax - ceramic instead.


Here's an old 2-door European job I did last Monday, it's worth around 2 million bucks.






I tested another brand of AIO on it and it micro-marred the paint. Not good.

JimmyG said:

1. Apply McKee's 37 Finisher Polish using the G9 and by hand. Now that I think about it, I might need more than five 5.5"/5.75" "polishing" pads in case I end up compounding with the "polishing" pads.

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No - 5 pads will be more than enough. Probably less. The step you really need the most pads is the compounding step. When foam becomes wet it comes soft, this means when your compound makes your foam cutting pad wet - it becomes a foam finishing pad and you stop removing defects efficiently. I like the Finisher polish better than the Beast compound. If I remember correctly, it wipes off easier than the compound.

I'm glad I'm with Dr. Beasley's now. Dr. Beasley's abrasive technology is top shelf and the formulas are way more advanced than conventional compound and polishes which is what most of the market has to offer. Plus Dr. Beasley's is a REAL manufacturer.

JimmyG said:

1. Prep the surface by applying McKee's 37 Coating Prep Polish using the G9 and by hand.

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Redundant step - no need at all to buy or use this product after polishing. If you already bought it, save it for future maintenance or for a brand new car that does not need paint correction.

JimmyG said:

1. Follow up with McKee's 37 Coating Prep Spray. But after reading the thread about paintwork cleansing lotions, I think I could skip both products. However, I already bought both, so I guess I'll do a test spot with the prep spray to see if it helps. I don't really want to use the prep polish since that might mean buying even more "polishing" pads.

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The Prep Polish is for people that are NOT doing any dedicated compounding and polishing steps. So for you, this would be a redundant step or in other words, wasted time, energy, pads and product.

The McKee's Coating Prep Spray is all you need to clean the paint surface after polishing to prep the paint for a ceramic coating. Smells good, I think Tuti Fruity?

If you used a Dr. Beasley's NSP product - you would be skipping this step.

JimmyG said:

1. Apply McKee's 37 Ceramic Paint Coating to the car. This will be my first attempt at applying a ceramic coating.

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Just follow directions - this is a very easy coating to use. Like with any ceramic coating, avoid high spots.

JimmyG said:

1. I bought my mom a bottle of McKee's 37 SiO2 Rinseless Wash and a dozen microfiber towels so she can do maintenance washes, but I'll probably end up doing those whenever I visit her...

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What a good son.

JimmyG said:

Sorry for the long post and numerous questions, but I'm just trying to gather more info to make this project go as smoothly as possible.

Thanks for any advice or feedback!

JimmyG

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There's no such thing as a long post or a dumb question.

I'd recommend asking the same questions above on ANY forum or Facebook group and compare the quality of detailed help you get there compared to here.

-Mike Phillips

Great candidate for an Extreme Prep Wash!You won't need the waxing pads, which I believe are the black foam finishing pads. The orange or white foam pads in the McKee's Redline line of pads are great general purpose "polishing" pads. The white foam is a tick softer than the orange foam and will normally finish out nice even on soft paints.If you get the Nanoskin 3" hand strap you really won't need the polishing pal. I worked at the geek for 11 years and never used a polishin-pal. LOL - if I did, it was just to show it. If you have sensitive hand muscles or weak hand muscles, then it would work as it gives you something a tick more ample to grasp. I have nothing against them, just never use them.For hand polishing, the 3" hand backing pad matched to the right buffing pad will work. You can even just use a quality microfiber or foam hand applicator pad for most hand work. Start with microfiber and re-polish with foam on softer paints to remove any marring caused by the pressure points from your finger tips.Yes. Having more pads is mostly important for any major paint correction steps like compounding and polishing by machine.All power tools are going to have some level of noise, the G9 is a good average on sound and felt-vibration.Get and use some ear plugs. I wear ear protection anytime I'm buffing now days. It's just a good practice. I also provide ear protection in all my detailing classes.It's a great free spinning polisher and you'll get use to the noise, which is normal for polishers.That will work. For a "Prep" wash, you can use any quality car wash soap. Heck, I used Dawn dish washing liquid for 2 recent "Prep" washes. I know some detailing experts will say this is wrong and I always say, go with the experts but what the experts don't take the time to read or understand is there's a HUGE difference between a "Prep" wash and a "Maintenance" wash.I used the Dawn dish washing soap on a Studebaker Silver Hawk that was in a FIRE and had smoke soot all over it. I NEEDED the cleaning strength of a detergent to really get the car clean BEFORE I machine polished the entire outside, glass, chrome, paint.The other car I used Dawn dish washing soap on was a Porsche Macan - and it was used as a Hockey Puck by the previous owner. I washed the heck out of this SUV and then did a FULL AGGRESSIVE compounding - so the "detergent" aspect of this detail was a non-issue.Any quality iron remover will work. A good spray-on is faster and easier than spreading a gel type product. Sound like a good idea on paper but not necessary UNLESS you have severe iron contamination that's ancient, then a gel offers longer dwell time, which helps.If you already bought it - then definitely use it as it does work good for this category of product.I rarely use iron removers. Not since I had aexperience where the top notch brand I usedtheon a VW I detailed. If you're going to machine polish the paint - the polishing will remove any iron build up.Nothing against iron removers and I normally show them during the Extreme Prep Wash portion of any detailing class I teach because it's a category of products and technique for all of use detailers to know how to do and do correctly - but not as necessary as everyone thinks.If you continue with the use or any iron remover - rinse off after it's dwelled for a few minutes but not dried on the surface and then move on to washing the car.Normally I would wash wheels and tires first - then start on the car body panels.If you want to save steps - wash and rinse the car and then while the car is still wet - use a clay mitt or clay towel mechanically decontaminate the paint while the car is still wet. I teach, preach and practice to do as many cleaning steps as possible during the washing process. If you already bought these other tools, they will work fine.Nope. Wash the wheels and tires first. If the wheels are neglected - get a great wheel cleaner. If not, then normal car wash soap will work with a great brush. I HIGHLY recommend this brush. These can seem to be expensive but you will LOVE this brush. Plus its super high quality and will last you for years.The BEAST compound can be a tick sticky to wipe off. This is one of the things I didn't like about it when I was using it while at AF/MK. Be sure to wipe off immediately and it will be easier. You can also spray some water or a spray detailer on it to make wipe-off easier.I'm a rep for Dr. Beasley's now so of course I would recommend the

Dr. Beasley's NSP 150 Primer

or

Dr. Beasley's Z1

like I used on this old 2-door Plymouth.The benefit to any of the NSP products is they don't contain any organic ingredients that must be removed in order for a coating to make a proper bond. you can us any of the NSP products, 150, 95, 45 and Z1 and coat right over the top of them. No messing with solvents/prep sprays and unintentionally marring the paint after you just spend hours polishing it.I've actually been using the Z1 like a compound, that is machine applying it with microwool pads and then follow this using the same product, Z1 with a foam pad and then go to coating.Z1 is the Dr. Beasley's version of other companies AIOs or cleaner/waxes - except no wax - ceramic instead.I tested another brand of AIO on it and it micro-marred the paint. Not good.No - 5 pads will be more than enough. Probably less. The step you really need the most pads is the compounding step. When foam becomes wet it comes soft, this means when your compound makes your foam cutting pad wet - it becomes a foam finishing pad and you stop removing defects efficiently. I like the Finisher polish better than the Beast compound. If I remember correctly, it wipes off easier than the compound.I'm glad I'm with Dr. Beasley's now. Dr. Beasley's abrasive technology is top shelf and the formulas are way more advanced than conventional compound and polishes which is what most of the market has to offer. Plus Dr. Beasley's is amanufacturer.Redundant step - no need at all to buy or use this product after polishing. If you already bought it, save it for future maintenance or for a brand new car that does not need paint correction.The Prep Polish is for people that aredoing any dedicated compounding and polishing steps. So for you, this would be a redundant step or in other words, wasted time, energy, pads and product.The McKee's Coating Prep Spray is all you need to clean the paint surface after polishing to prep the paint for a ceramic coating. Smells good, I think Tuti Fruity?If you used a Dr. Beasley's NSP product - you would be skipping this step.Just follow directions - this is a very easy coating to use. Like with any ceramic coating, avoid high spots.What a good son.There's no such thing as a long post or a dumb question.I'd recommend asking the same questions above on ANY forum or Facebook group and compare the quality of detailed help you get there compared to here.-Mike Phillips

This video settles the great debate as to whether you can achieve the same level of results of removing swirl marks and scratches through hand polishing as you would with machine compounding and polishing, whether it simply is not possible, or whether it's somewhere in between with generally a good improvement in swirl mark reduction and increase in gloss, color, and depth. We'll explain everything below, but here's the spoilers up front - the answer is that hand polishing will not give you the same results as machine polishing, but hand polishing can still give acceptable results for many, and a nice overall improvement in the finish quality of the paint. Now let's take a more in-depth look and explanation of both options for improving your vehicle's paint.

Before we jump into the discussion of hand polishing versus machine polishing, first we should explain the difference between polish and wax. As Joe mentions in the video, some are under the impression that wax and polish are synonymous, or equal terms, but this has been a misunderstanding for quite a fair amount of our customers for many years now. Waxes are blends of carnauba, montan, and other natural materials designed to add a temporary or sacrificial layer of protection on top of the clear coat. Waxes typically only last a few weeks to a few months since they are subjective to heat. They increase gloss and depth by trying to fill-in and somewhat hide defects like light scratches and swirl marks or spider webbing in the clear coat. A polish on the other hand, uses micro-abrasives to carefully remove defects like stains, oxidation, and faint swirl marks by rubbing an applicator pad back and forth over the surface to slowly abrade away the imperfections, to bring out even better levels of shine and depth to the finish than a wax alone. In most cases like our white machine Polish, it does not leave any type of protection on the surface, leaving behind a bare, exposed clear coat.

Polish won't always remove every defect easily though, so that is when you will need to take it to the next step with a chemical that has a little more bite. We'll explain both the by-hand option and the machine option next. Compound is the more aggressive machine paint correction step that is used when you have deeper swirl marks and scratches that Polish has difficulty in removing. Compound when combined with a more aggressive cutting pad and a random orbital polisher can make significant damage nearly disappear, but since it is more aggressive, it will usually leave a haze to the finish that then requires you to then step down to Polish and a softer pad to bring back the original color and depth to the finish. There are various levels of how aggressive a compound may correct the finish. Some will remove more clear coat than others, cause high amounts of compound dust into the cracks and body seams on the vehicle, and require a lot of effort to wipe away the residue. We want things to be as easy as possible though, so you will find that our blue Compound is very low dust, very easy to wipe off, and not super aggressive.

Just as you use Compound with a machine polisher for deeper defects, our Scratch & Swirl Remover is a stronger hand polish for reducing or removing more significant damage without the use of a machine. It pairs with our Orange Hex Grip Applicator, which has a more firm, dense foam that, when combined with the slightly gritty Scratch & Swirl Remover, you might be surprised by how much it can improve a surface just by hand polishing! As with compounding by machine, the Orange Hex Grip and Scratch & Swirl Remover may leave some haze in the finish as it removes the bigger imperfections, so you will then want to follow it up with the Blue Hex Grip and our blue Hand Polish. Our Hand Polish is a unique formula that acts as a polish, glaze, and protectant in one - it has a small amount of a formula very similar to our Brilliant Glaze mixed in, to try to help fill in and hide imperfections even more, and it has a small amount of sealant built into it for some protection as well.

When hand polishing with either Scratch & Swirl Remover or Hand Polish, work in back-and-forth movements with the applicator, not circles, and be prepared for a workout. You will exert far more energy with hand polishing than machine polishing, so be prepared to set aside enough time to take breaks, and don't expect to hand polish an entire car or truck with both steps in one day unless you want your arms and shoulders to be very sore afterward! Adam has recommended in the past that counting to 20 is a good estimate for how many passes you should make back (10) and forth (10) or left (10) and right (10) to really work the micro-abrasives into the surface and break them down before you wipe away the residue and investigate the level of improvement. So when you consider both steps, you'll be hand polishing each section of paint about 40 times back and forth. Compare that to machine compounding and machine polishing, where you are only running the machine left/right and up/down for 2-3 passes in each area, and you can see how using a machine will be far less strenuous on your body for the most part, and a much faster and efficient process. The main areas where a machine might be a little more of a struggle will be reaching out to the center of the hood, or holding the polisher upright to do the lower sections of doors, which can put more strain on your shoulders and back in both areas.

The side-by-side results in the video speak the truth though. You can clearly see that the area where Adam used the Swirl Killer Pro 12mm machine polisher produced much clearer results, removing more swirl marks and scratches than the area where Joe utilized the two-step hand polishing system. The hand polishing system gave good results, far better than the original condition of the panel when they started, but the Swirl Killer Pro gave the best results. And if you want the paint to reach the best shine potential before protecting it with a graphene ceramic coating (which most of us do!), you will want to go with machine polishing no question about it. The Swirl Killer Pro 12mm is an excellent starter machine for a beginner, but it is also a perfect choice for an experienced detailer wanting to reach tighter areas where a larger machine may not fit as easily. The smaller casing of the machine feels more comfortable for most beginners and not as unwieldy, with more control over your arm movements and downward pressure. You can paint correct an entire vehicle using this 12mm "Mini" polisher - sure, it will take longer using the smaller 3.5" pads, but if it's your own vehicle and you have no time constraints, don't rush through it. You can polish a fender and a door one weekend, a door and a trunk the next weekend, and so on. When it's your own vehicle with no deadline, this is shine therapy, take your time and enjoy it!

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