3S Lift 3SL-MH03L250-9M 30' Electric Ladder Hoist, 552 lb

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#10

Post by kmorin » Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:42 pm

chocolatemoose wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:27 am

tapering to a 8o deadrise at the stern.

tapering to a 8o deadrise at the stern.

I think its pretty common here, Pacific NW in USofA to measure dead rise from the horizontal line outboard the keel (baseline to some) and then measure upward to the chine so that seems to translate from your "80 (?) deadrise" to 10 degs deadrise? Unless that was

8

degrees? at which time it's even less (!)- but the symbols weren't completley clear as I read the post.

In the roaring days of mahogany power boat racing early in the last century, Gar Woods, Hacker, Chris Craft, Dodge and later Carlos Riva and Co. all used very low deadrise bottoms with a very flat chine forward. All the boats were, of course, primary fresh water boats and there were many hours in an average day those bodies of water were flat calm so the pounding of that class of hull, with little deadrise amidships, wasn't intolerable.

The WWII Elco and Higgens built PT boats used this same bottom (approximate lines) and had the roughest ride afloat if the waves were just a few feet high.

Here in the North Pacific performance boats, almost all plate aluminum boats have at least 12-15 degrees at the stern, many boats in this class have 15-20 deg. and their chines raises increasing its ht above keel in Profile View-especially from amidships forward; increasing the V forward to double and even triple the V at the stern. When the planing hull's running waterline leading edge moves aft to 1/3 (approx) LOA behind the bow; that's where 85% of the running bottom impact or entry will be expressed in this size boat moving a speed in even a short chop or wind ripple.

Your angle of entry at this point (about amidships) is relatively flat and I suspect she will pound fiercely in head sea at 2/3 to 3/4 throttle?

The same is true of a plumb vs raked stem... The issue being time vs immersion and the result is 'ride' that very hard to define item but easily felt in your legs. The time to immerse a plumb stem is shown in its Profile. All at once, not much of any extension of time vs immersion. One reason the Cigarette boats (in general all the open ocean racing hulls) all have such extremely raked bow stems- maybe the could be called 'all forefoot and no stem'?- is to give the hull as much time to add the wetting drag and the immersion of deeper waterlines before the forward momentum can bleed off and to reduce the deceleration rate coming down! As I understand the shape by Don Aronow the Deep V helps to reduce slamming along with a raked stem to allow the boat to pitch/lift/buoy up before its wetted to the sheer?

Since a 30-40 knot planing hull is entering wave faces where the 'time' I'm exploring is in parts of a second or a few seconds at best.... deceleration to a near stop in a short time, and resulting in a huge pitch by the bow- seems like less comfortable ride from this hull shape? As Chaps put it:

Chaps wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:50 am

though might it be a rather blunt instrument at speed in typical offshore conditions?

though might it be a rather blunt instrument at speed in typical offshore conditions?

Would be interesting to see her Plan View waterlines but I think the inverted framing perspective tells the story.

As to the door, the boats we've repaired that were cracked below the door's corners were framed very similarly to what you show. From the cracks we repaired the issue was bending moment fore and aft not transversely so xverse frames aren't very influential. The issue seemed to be the loads - so perhaps not being planned for commercial deck loads you won't seen the hulls bending moment pass the lower topsides elastic limits. The boats I can recall were either landing craft or 'dive boats' where the loading on deck may have raised the waterlines enough that fore and aft buoyancy forces were greater? Surely the greater mass underway would have been a change in longitudinal loading. Either way, we ended up repairing by making box beams inside the chine to deck areas that extended fore and aft the door to insure the loss of topsides section modulus (cut out in the 'beam' of the chine to sheer side) didn't allow the cracks to reoccur.

So that is why I was asking about the longitudinal framing under the topsides door.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK

Choc'moose, replies to the last post and renewed remarks from previous ones.I think its pretty common here, Pacific NW in USofA to measure dead rise from the horizontal line outboard the keel (baseline to some) and then measure upward to the chine so that seems to translate from your "80 (?) deadrise" to 10 degs deadrise? Unless that wasdegrees? at which time it's even less (!)- but the symbols weren't completley clear as I read the post.In the roaring days of mahogany power boat racing early in the last century, Gar Woods, Hacker, Chris Craft, Dodge and later Carlos Riva and Co. all used very low deadrise bottoms with a very flat chine forward. All the boats were, of course, primary fresh water boats and there were many hours in an average day those bodies of water were flat calm so the pounding of that class of hull, with little deadrise amidships, wasn't intolerable.The WWII Elco and Higgens built PT boats used this same bottom (approximate lines) and had the roughest ride afloat if the waves were just a few feet high.Here in the North Pacific performance boats, almost all plate aluminum boats have at least 12-15 degrees at the stern, many boats in this class have 15-20 deg. and their chines raises increasing its ht above keel in Profile View-especially from amidships forward; increasing the V forward to double and even triple the V at the stern. When the planing hull's running waterline leading edge moves aft to 1/3 (approx) LOA behind the bow; that's where 85% of the running bottom impact or entry will be expressed in this size boat moving a speed in even a short chop or wind ripple.Your angle of entry at this point (about amidships) is relatively flat and I suspect she will pound fiercely in head sea at 2/3 to 3/4 throttle?The same is true of a plumb vs raked stem... The issue being time vs immersion and the result is 'ride' that very hard to define item but easily felt in your legs. The time to immerse a plumb stem is shown in its Profile. All at once, not much of any extension of time vs immersion. One reason the Cigarette boats (in general all the open ocean racing hulls) all have such extremely raked bow stems- maybe the could be called 'all forefoot and no stem'?- is to give the hull as much time to add the wetting drag and the immersion of deeper waterlines before the forward momentum can bleed off and to reduce the deceleration rate coming down! As I understand the shape by Don Aronow the Deep V helps to reduce slamming along with a raked stem to allow the boat to pitch/lift/buoy up before its wetted to the sheer?Since a 30-40 knot planing hull is entering wave faces where the 'time' I'm exploring is in parts of a second or a few seconds at best.... deceleration to a near stop in a short time, and resulting in a huge pitch by the bow- seems like less comfortable ride from this hull shape? As Chaps put it:Would be interesting to see her Plan View waterlines but I think the inverted framing perspective tells the story.As to the door, the boats we've repaired that were cracked below the door's corners were framed very similarly to what you show. From the cracks we repaired the issue was bending moment fore and aft not transversely so xverse frames aren't very influential. The issue seemed to be the loads - so perhaps not being planned for commercial deck loads you won't seen the hulls bending moment pass the lower topsides elastic limits. The boats I can recall were either landing craft or 'dive boats' where the loading on deck may have raised the waterlines enough that fore and aft buoyancy forces were greater? Surely the greater mass underway would have been a change in longitudinal loading. Either way, we ended up repairing by making box beams inside the chine to deck areas that extended fore and aft the door to insure the loss of topsides section modulus (cut out in the 'beam' of the chine to sheer side) didn't allow the cracks to reoccur.So that is why I was asking about the longitudinal framing under the topsides door.Cheers,Kevin MorinKenai, AK

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