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GLASS JARS or PLASTIC BAGS?
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(Geotechnical)
(OP)
8 Aug 19 23:24Hey guys! So I need a little help convincing my office to switch from plastic bags to glass jars for SPT soil collecting. We're currently using plastic bags and storing them in a big burlap bag (potato sack). We usually collect the entire split spoon. Does this seem crazy? Or maybe I was spoiled at my last company.
1)Do you use glass jars or plastic bags?
Glass Jars:
a) they keep you organized (easy to store, easy to access, easy to ship)
b) they can be lighter (depending on how much sample is taken from plastic bags)
c) air right --- seals in moisture
d) more expensive, but not when compared to the cost of drilling
Plastic bags:
a) doesn't really encourage post-review
b) disorganized, if you want to look at a sample you have to puzzle through the bag/box
c) don&#;t completely close (unless it&#;s ziplock)
2) Generally, how much sample is necessary for collection (from a standard SPT split-spoon sampler)? I feel like a small 4-5&#; representative sample works?
(Geotechnical)
8 Aug 19 23:47We use plastic jars. My last company used plastic bags. Whirl pak bags are better than ziplock bags. I like the jars better, but they take up more room and are more expensive.
As far as sample collection. You need a sample from every soil stratum. The whole split spoon sample would be better than the bottom 4-5&#;, if there were any material changes within that sample depth. It really depends on who you have logging the borings and if you can trust them. If you don&#;t have an engineer or geologist in the field, I would want to see the whole split spoon sample.
(Geotechnical)
8 Aug 19 23:50While I've always been with the glass jar method, I have wondered how many of those saved samples ever gets looked at again. The last I was involved with them we kept them for 90 days and then dumped the sample, washed and reused the jars. In my practice all jars were tall olive jars so as to provide a sample for Qu test. Lids were thrown because boring no. sample no, etc. were scratched on the lids. For the thousandth of samples so handled and stored not one was ever needed for a court case. On very very rare occasion a sample not previously tested with penetrometer or Qu test, it was the tested to add to the data. In summary, I'd say either way is OK and be prepared to dump them soon after the job is done and report well on its way..
(Geotechnical)
9 Aug 19 00:48I would recommend trying to not overthink it. Both works. I would rather have jars for organization but I&#;m not too lazy to take the 5 minutes to line up samples on a work bench either.
Jars aren&#;t always air tight though. I&#;ve found old samples of peat that lost most of their moisture.
(Structural)
9 Aug 19 01:13In the company I grew up in, glass jars were the norm. When I started my own firm many years ago, I used glass jars until I could no longer get them. Switched to plastic bags. Decided that moisture content would degrade so we started doing moisture content quickly while maintaining the rest of the sample...pain in the a$$. Glass jars are better for many reasons.
A Great Place For Engineers to Help Engineers
(Geotechnical)
9 Aug 19 03:29Ziploc freezer plastic bags, when sealing the bag the majority of the air should be pressed out. Each borehole gets a larger plastic bag or bucket which is then laid out and reviewed in the office or lab.
The minimum amount bagged would be the minimum identified to complete the lab testing. In practise we typically recover the whole representative SPT sample recovered.
(Geotechnical)
9 Aug 19 12:03Our state DOT requires glass jars. For the case that there is a change within the SPT, we'd also require both soils be retained in separate jars.Prior to my current job, I was in consulting. In that instance, I also only saw glass jars.I'm unwilling to revert back to plastic bags, which I haven't seen in use EVER in Virginia. Used to see them when I was a field geologist out west.f-d
ípapß gordo ainÆt no madre flaca!
(Geotechnical)
9 Aug 19 13:12It&#;s definitely a western thing.
OP, I&#;m going to guess that your a younger engineer at a new(ish) job. I&#;ve learned the hard way to choose your battles carefully. If this is your only criticism of the company then I wouldn&#;t worry about too much about what I&#;m going to say. However if this is your first of many issues with the way the company does things, then hear me out.
The first job I took after moving west, after spending close to a decade working in the northeast, came with some culture shock. The company I worked for had a very relaxed way of viewing....just about everything. The amount of design work was pretty much nil as they pretty much just pumped out reports, although they told me otherwise in my interview (this is a common theme in Colorado). Most of their recommendations were &#;based on experience&#; without any theoretical or empirical data. I naturally questioned things and it really rubbed people the wrong way. But having questions answered with &#;that&#;s how we always do it&#; and not any sound reasoning is just lazy in my book. I decided that I was going to put in my time to &#;repay&#; them for getting me out west and leave. But by the end I had a huge target on my back. To the point where I&#;d get 6 reports to write on my desk all at once, with similar short turnaround times. I questioned them on how they used their samplers, store their samples, lack of staff training with sample classification and safety, fluid pressures, skin friction recommendations and so much more. They would literally extrude their Shelby samples, put plastic wrap around the sample, and store them horizontally in a not so temperature stable room. Although I didn&#;t care too much about the target on my back as I knew my time was limited there it was an eye opening experience. I wasn&#;t aggressive in my conversations, except for the safety issues since lives were literally at stake, and I was still met with a lot of resistance and viewed as a pain in the ass. All I was asking for was why they did it this way and not as recommended in the references I had or based on my experience back east.
Take what you want from my experience but if jars versus bags is something that is really affecting the quality of your work and it has to change, just know that even if you have 3 text references explaining why something is correct, people are hesitant to change, and apparently it can cause tension.
(Geotechnical)
9 Aug 19 16:03OG again. If trying to change for what ever reason and there is reluctance as MTN Climber brought up, why worry? Life is too short to get into arguments over nothing really that important. If quality of the output is affected, yes, but I doubt that it is. As an old duffer, the way we always did it sometimes has merit of sorts. You will be there some day hopefully.
(Geotechnical)
(OP)
10 Aug 19 00:42Wow, wasnt expecting so much solid feedback! Thanks everbody. I wouldnt be able to get this insight anywhere else.
After long consideration, I think I'm going to take the advice of not bringing this up. I have a tendacy of "dreaming too big" and I dont think I fully understand how much of a headache this might cause for people. People like what they're use to. Plus, as mentioned, I dont want to bring any unwanted attention to myself.
Perhaps if I started with bags I'd be asking this the other way around.
Thanks again!
(Geotechnical)
10 Aug 19 01:26So that company I worked for was awful. Every time I talked to one of my engineering friends back east about how the company operated, they would just be in shock.
But I&#;ve learned several things from the experience. The biggest is if your reputation, professional license, safety or safety of others are not on the line, ask yourself: Is this the hill I want to die on? I chose to fight many things because those items were on the line but decided not to fight other issues because they didn&#;t really affect me on a larger scale.
On the bright side, when you become in charge of the project budget, you can add a few extra bucks for the jars. Who knows, maybe you&#;ll start a trend at your company.
(Geotechnical)
10 Aug 19 15:55For what it is worth - I started out using glass jars and liked them. To one post, the project engineer (manager) in the company I was with would review every jar with the field engineer. This carried over with a company I joined after only a few years with the first (interestingly, all the principals of the first company used to work for the 2nd company). I used glass whenever possible but there were times, like in the Northwest Territories that you lived with whatever you could get your hands on - usually plastic bags.
One other point - I always put the hole sample into the sample container however, removing obviously granular "wash" - yes, many of our jobs used wash boring techniques. Whenever I had two types of material in the spoon, I separately put them into separate containers - when using bags, then both bags would be put into a bigger bag. Early on I had a job where there were "layers" of silt to clayey silt (only a few mm thick) and there were a few samples that were divided into four separate containers.
(Geotechnical)
4 Sep 19 17:36I started off with glass, but now use bags, as I also moved to the west and use mostly Modified California barrels.
I find MTNClimber's assessment of Colorado bit odd, as engineering is based on learning from past experience, and that of others. That is how engineering started, with people learning from mistakes and successes. Not everything needs to be calculated out as a research project, and various , streamlined methods are used throughout the world since experience shows them to be valid. Heck, many shortcut methods are taught in textbooks. I have had a good experience in my move, learning what is done locally, as the practice is different based on what the earth gives you to work with.
So to counter his point, as a manager, I would welcome discussion on any proposed change, as long as you have a valid reason. If the reason for you to ask is why do we do it this way vs. another, that is valid enough in my book. It shows you want to learn (even of mundane details such as sample containers). Just be ready to hear what the answer is and provide sound reasoning if you want to change the way it is done. If you get resistance, don't take it personally, and learn to let it go. If the response is "this is the way we have always done it, and we have not had issues with it", then there will likely need to be a good reason to change the status quo. "That's not what I'm used to" is not really a good reason for everyone else to change their mind - you might need to adapt.
(Geotechnical)
4 Sep 19 19:44Not to derail this conversation but it seems like the OP got what they wanted from this thread so I'll respond to TDAA.
TDAA - I'm glad you got what you wanted from Colorado. I personally didn't and I'm sure it had a lot to do with the people I have interacted with. But if I asked you why you use this skin friction value for a certain material and you say "Because that's what we always use." I'd ask if you can you provide me with pile load test data or a reference with guidelines? "We don't do load tests. We actually don't hear about load tests being performed often." Why are these values different from the values other companies use in their reports? "Not sure." Ok, so is my stamp in jeopardy for recommending these values in my reports? "We don't get pulled into lawsuits too often." ...That's comforting. Are we being too conservative and wasting the client's money? "I don't think so."
I realize engineering is heavily based on past experience and results but we have now advanced past throwing darts at a board on a lot of topics. Especially when it comes to skin friction values. You can't ever run a load test? Come on.
Like I said, there's a good chance that it is the people that I've interacted with. But the thing that always got me was that my employer back east would always have a competent person that could sit down with you and explain things in a clear and concise way that is consistent with the practice used in the area.
I've talked to multiple people originally from the northeast about it. I know that I was not alone in feeling that there are more instances of inadequate engineering and construction practices. I'm 100% sure that there are plenty of great and intelligent engineers and geologists in Colorado, I just haven't gotten the chance to work with them.
I could go on a multi-page rant about my experience but I wont. Instead I just plan on going back east in a few months to regain my professional sanity.... right after ski season is over.
(Geotechnical)
21 Sep 19 15:40MTNClimber - in the companies I worked with in Canada a long time ago - every report I wrote was thoroughly reviewed by a more senior engineer and, after his review, by our Chief Engineer (who happened to be a student of Terzaghi and is still, at 91, practicing although in advisory type roles. It is always best to have more "wise" people reviewing reports.
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The choice of food jars is a major issue for companies in the agri-food sector, which must evaluate several criteria to ensure the quality of the packaging they use. Packaging not only influences product preservation, but also brand image, food safety and environmental impact. In a competitive market where consumers are increasingly demanding and sensitive to environmental issues, manufacturers need to offer sustainable and eco-responsible solutions, while respecting the standards and regulations in force. In this context, this article examines the different aspects to consider when choosing quality food jars and jars, and will help you in choosing the best packaging for your products.
Plastic pots : advantages and disadvantages to consider
However, plastic pots also have some disadvantages. They are less suitable for products that need to be sterilised or stored at high temperatures, due to their lower heat resistance. Consumers tend to associate plastic packaging with pollution and plastic waste, which can damage the brand image of your product. In addition, plastics can release chemicals into food, especially when exposed to heat. It is therefore important to respect the legal limits on the migration of these substances, as recommended by the ANIA (Association Nationale des Industries Alimentaires).
Plastic pots : summary of advantages and disadvantages
Benefits
Disadvantages
Lightweight
Economical
Shock resistant
Various sizes and colours
Easy to personalise
Recyclable
Less heat resistant
Negative ecological perception
Potential migration of chemicals
Discover our complete range of PET food jars !
Are glass jars the best option? Advantages and disadvantages
Glass is a popular material for manufacturers, particularly for its perceived premium quality, which enhances the value of packaged products. Glass is also fully recyclable, reducing its impact on the environment. According to CITEO, the recycling rate for glass was 88% in .
The resistance of glass to temperature variations is another major advantage, making it suitable for sterilisation processes and high temperature preservation techniques. Thanks to its effective oxygen barrier properties, glass preserves the freshness and quality of packaged products. In addition, unlike plastic, glass does not present any risk of migration of chemicals into the food.
However, glass has some disadvantages. It weighs more than plastic, which leads to higher transport and logistics costs. Its fragility is also a weak point, increasing the risk of breakage during production and transport.
Summary of the advantages and disadvantages of glass jars
Benefits
Disadvantages
Hight-end perception
Recyclable
Heat resistant
Effective oxygen barrier
No migration of chemicals
Heavier
Fragile
Cost of transport
Production cost
Explore our selection of glass pots and jars !
The environmental impact of materials: A growing concern
When selecting materials, manufacturers need to take into account various elements such as recyclability, carbon footprint and energy consumption during production. This will help them to make environmentally responsible decisions.
Glass is an infinitely recyclable material, which means that the raw material can be remelted and reused many times without loss of quality. The use of cullet (finely ground glass), i.e. recycled glass, reduces the carbon footprint by lowering the consumption of raw materials and CO2 emissions. This is because the melting temperature of cullet is lower than that of virgin material. However, it is important to note that the production of glass requires significant energy consumption, due to the high temperatures required for its fusion.
Plastic has the advantage that it can be recycled, depending on the type, and its production is less energy intensive than that of glass. However, plastic pollution can occur if waste is not properly managed, and plastic production involves the use of non-renewable resources such as oil.
If you would like to know more or have any questions about the materials used, please do not hesitate to contact our team of experts to help you choose the most suitable and sustainable materials for your food packaging.
Need advice ? We are here to help you !
Tips for selecting the size and shape of food containers
Essential criteria for determining the ideal size
It is important to choose the right type of containers for your products, so you need to choose packaging that is appropriate for their size, diameter, shape, weight, type of product being packaged...
Here are some key elements to consider when selecting the appropriate size for a package:
Quantity of product to be packaged :
The size of the package should be adapted to the quantity of product to be packaged. Too little capacity may disappoint consumers, while too much capacity may lead to waste and increased production costs. Caution! Food that has been packaged hot may take up less space when cooled.
Consumer preferences :
It is essential to study consumer expectations and needs to determine the most appropriate pack size. Market research can provide valuable information on customer preferences for capacity and convenience.
Production constraints : The manufacturing and packaging processes may impose limitations on the size of the packaging. It is important to take these constraints into account when selecting a jar.
Logistical and storage constraints :
The size of packaging also influences the costs and complexity of logistics operations. Smaller, stackable packages optimise storage space and facilitate transport, which can lead to savings in logistics costs.
The size of food jars and jars must be carefully chosen taking into account these different criteria. It is an essential element in meeting consumer expectations and ensuring the commercial success of the product, while controlling production and logistics costs.
Forms available on the market and their usefulness
The variety of shapes of food jars and jars on the market meets the different needs of professionals. Each of these shapes has specific characteristics and advantages.
are versatile and can accommodate various types of products. Their rounded shape makes them easy to store and stack. This makes them suitable for a wide variety of uses, from jams and sauces to canned vegetables.
offer an original presentation that highlights the product. Their unique design can be an asset to stand out from competitors. These containers are often used for high-end products such as artisanal jams, honeys or chutneys.
is specially designed to hold jams, preserves or honey. Its shape and size are adapted to hold small quantities and make it easy to grip when using.
The small spice jar has an airtight lid that preserves the freshness and aroma of the spices, herbs or condiments it contains. It is ideal for storing and displaying spices in professional or domestic kitchens. It can also be used in combination with a grinder to store salt or pepper, for example.
Finally, theis a jar with a rubber seal and a mechanical closing system. It is suitable for the sterilisation and long-term storage of foodstuffs, such as vegetables, fruit or ready-made meals.
Understanding closure and sealing systems
Types of closures for food jars and jars
The choice of a closure system for food jars and jars depends on the specific needs in terms of convenience, tightness and food preservation. Here is an overview of the different types of closures available on the market :
Screw-on lids are very versatile and can be used with both glass and plastic containers. They offer a secure closure and are easily reusable, making them popular for a wide variety of applications.
Crimp caps are mainly used for glass jars. They require a crimping tool to be attached to the container, which guarantees a hermetic seal. This type of closure is particularly suitable for products that need to be stored for a long time, such as preserves.
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Snap-on lids
are specifically designed for plastic pots. They make it easy to open and close the container, while ensuring a good seal. This system is ideal for products that are regularly opened and resealed, such as biscuits or sweets.
The lids, often made of aluminium, are thermally sealed to the container and guarantee an optimal seal. They are commonly used for yoghurts, compotes and sauces, as they offer maximum protection against external contamination.
Hinged lids, usually used for glass jars, provide a tight seal and give the packaging a traditional look. They are particularly popular for jams, honeys and chutneys.
Finally, clip closures, equipped with a rubber seal, ensure a perfect seal for food preservation. This type of closure is frequently used for "Le Parfait" jars and is suitable for sterilisation and long-term storage of food.
Best practices to ensure tightness and food safety
Before closing a container, it is important to clean the edges and ensure that no product residues remain. Poor hygiene could compromise the seal and encourage the growth of bacteria or mould.
The use of proper sealing equipment for crimp caps and lids is essential to ensure a perfect seal and food protection.
It is recommended that the tightness of packaging be tested under real-life conditions, including transport, storage and handling by the consumer. These tests help to identify potential problems and to optimise the choice of packaging.
Finally, it is mandatory to comply with the relevant regulations for materials and closure systems. Food safety standards and certifications ensure that packaging meets legal requirements and protects consumers.
Customisation and branding
Importance of branding and attractive packaging
Brand image and attractive packaging play a crucial role in the perception of products and manufacturers. In a competitive market, differentiation is essential to facilitate the consumer's decision making process and to improve visibility and brand awareness. Well-designed packaging creates an emotional connection with customers, strengthening brand loyalty.
Customisation options for food jars and jars
For personalising food jars and jars, several options are available. Custom labelling offers a wide range of choices in terms of colours, fonts, logos and images. Printing techniques vary according to requirements and include screen, offset, pad and digital printing. Finishes such as varnish, hot foil stamping and embossing provide an extra touch of elegance and distinction. Finally, customised lids and closures allow you to play with colours, materials and designs to make the packaging unique and recognisable.
At Fidel, we offer a range of specific services including custom printing:
Discover the techniques of customisation!
Food safety standards and regulations
Applicable standards and certifications
Some manufacturers, in order to guarantee the quality of their products, voluntarily set up various (non-mandatory) standards:
The ISO standard, which concerns quality management systems.
The ISO (food safety management), FSSC , BRC and IFC standards cover the same food safety requirements. They aim to prevent the risk of contamination and to ensure the traceability of food products throughout the production chain.
Compliance with national and European regulations
In addition to the non-mandatory standards mentioned above, it is essential to comply with national and European regulations on food packaging. Here are some points to consider:
Check compliance with French regulations, in particular those issued by the Directorate-General for Competition, Consumer Affairs and Fraud Control (DGCCRF).
Keep up to date with European regulations, including the requirements of the framework regulation / and material-specific regulations (e.g. EU Regulation 10/ on plastic materials and articles in contact with foodstuffs. This regulation sets out the requirements for materials in contact with food, such as jars and pots).
Adapting packaging to the standards of exporting countries. Legislation varies from country to country, and it is crucial to ensure that packaging meets the specific requirements of each target market.
Quality assurance and supplier control at Fidel Fillaud
Quality assurance and supplier supervision are essential elements in ensuring the safety and conformity of jars and jars for food use. Fidel Fillaud attaches great importance to these aspects and implements strict procedures to guarantee the quality and traceability of products.
The choice of suppliers is a fundamental step. Fidel Fillaud endeavours to work with partners who comply with the standards and certifications in force in the field of food packaging. This approach guarantees that the jars and jars come from reliable sources and comply with food safety regulations. Fidel Fillaud has chosen to work with suppliers who are mainly based in Europe and 51% of whom are French.
In order to maintain an optimum level of quality, Fidel Fillaud regularly inspects its suppliers' production sites. These inspections ensure that quality, hygiene and safety standards are respected, as well as assessing manufacturing processes and quality control methods.
Product traceability is also essential to ensure food safety and packaging conformity. Fidel Fillaud ensures that each stage of the supply chain, from manufacture to delivery, is carefully documented and monitored. This traceability makes it easier to go back to the source in the event of a problem and guarantees transparency for customers.
In addition, Fidel Fillaud provides an expert customer service to meet the demands and needs of professionals in the food sector. This service assists customers in selecting packaging, informs them of the standards and regulations in force, and advises them on best practice in terms of food safety.
Sustainability and environmental impact
Consumer expectations for sustainable packaging
Consumers are increasingly concerned about the environment and expect sustainable packaging for the food products they buy. Their expectations include :
A preference for recyclable, reusable or compostable packaging, which reduces waste and conserves natural resources.
Transparency on the origin of materials used and manufacturing practices to ensure that packaging is produced in an ethical and responsible manner.
Discovering innovative alternatives to traditional food containers
To meet these expectations, it is important to choose environmentally friendly materials for food jars. Sustainable options include :
Recycled or bio-based plastic, which reduces the environmental impact of plastic production.
Compostable materials, which decompose into natural elements without harming the environment.
Sustainable practices implemented at Fidel Fillaud
At Fidel Fillaud, we implement a variety of sustainable practices to reduce our environmental impact and meet consumer expectations:
The use of recycled and recyclable materials in the distribution of our packaging, in order to limit our carbon footprint and preserve natural resources. FIDEL FILLAUD has developed an ECOSphere range of containers that will enable you to have a more sustainable and responsible approach.
Partnerships with suppliers committed to an eco-responsible approach, to guarantee the quality and durability of our products.
The pack-score, inspired by the Nutri-Score but adapted to packaging, which makes it possible to evaluate and communicate the environmental impact of packaging, taking into account criteria such as the recyclability of the material, reusability, manufacturing, weight and carbon emissions.
Find our entire ECOSphere range!
Innovative alternatives to traditional food containers
Focus on compostable and recycled packaging in the world of food jars
In an era where sustainability and ecology are at the forefront, the food container industry is constantly seeking to innovate. As a result, alternatives to traditional jars are emerging that minimise the environmental impact of packaging. Among these solutions are compostable jars and jars, as well as recycled containers.
Compostable containers are an interesting option for professionals concerned about their ecological footprint. Made from biodegradable materials, these containers decompose naturally in a composter, whether domestic or industrial. This feature makes it an environmentally friendly solution and promotes the circular economy. However, it is important to ensure that the material is compatible with the food and storage conditions before choosing this alternative.
Recycled pots and jars come in different categories: bio-sourced, recycled or eco-designed.
Bio-based packaging
is plastic made from plant products (e.g. sugar cane bagasse, corn, etc.). They help to preserve the planet's resources as they are produced from a renewable raw material.
are made from recycled materials, reducing plastic waste and conserving natural resources.
Finally, eco-designed packaging is developed to limit its environmental impact throughout its life cycle, from production to end-of-life.
These innovative alternatives to traditional containers allow food professionals to adopt more sustainable practices and meet the growing expectations of consumers in terms of ecology. However, the specificities of each option should be carefully studied and their compatibility with the food, the packaging process and the storage conditions should be ensured before integrating them into the production chain.
Discover our entire range of eco-friendly packaging!
Evaluate the quality of the product
Criteria for assessing the quality of food jars and jars
When assessing the quality of food jars and jars, it is essential to consider several criteria, including
Materials used:
It is important to check the quality, strength and environmental impact of the materials chosen for packaging. Quality materials guarantee better food preservation.
Finish:
Appearance is a crucial element, as it contributes to the brand image and appeal of the product. The quality of the print must be impeccable to reflect the seriousness of the company and to build customer loyalty.
The accessory:
A tight, easy-to-use and durable closure system is essential to ensure food safety and consumer satisfaction. The closures must also comply with current regulations.
Compliance with standards and regulations:
Food packaging must comply with applicable standards and regulations, such as certifications and food safety requirements.
Importance of samples and field tests
The importance of sampling and testing under real conditions should not be underestimated when assessing the quality of food jars. It is recommended to :
Request samples to check the quality of materials, finishes and closures. Samples allow us to detect possible defects before mass production and to avoid unpleasant surprises.
Carry out tests under real conditions, simulating situations of transport, storage and handling by the consumer. These tests make it possible to verify the resistance of the packaging and its watertightness, as well as its behaviour in the face of variations in temperature, humidity and impact.
Request your sample now!
En conclusion, le choix des pots et bocaux alimentaires est crucial pour les entreprises agroalimentaires car il impacte la conservation, l'image de marque, la sécurité alimentaire et l'impact environnemental. Les critères importants incluent les matériaux, la finition, la fermeture, et la conformité aux normes. Les entreprises doivent être en mesure de proposer des emballages écoresponsables et durables, tout en respectant les normes de sécurité alimentaire et les réglementations. Les tests en conditions réelles sont nécessaires pour garantir la compatibilité de l&#;emballage sélectionné avec le produit conditionné.
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